No, I will not be taking part in today's protest against the new conscription law that is being formulated. I would have liked to, but the Hareidi press ruined it for me.
For those of you who do go here is an interesting psak.
No, I will not be taking part in today's protest against the new conscription law that is being formulated. I would have liked to, but the Hareidi press ruined it for me.
For those of you who do go here is an interesting psak.
This is a simple solution that could have been implemented a long time ago: Create different frameworks within the army that do not contradict the Hareidi way of life i.e. do not force them to serve with women etc.However, the IDF is a large organization that does not always act in a consistent way. Recently, four soldiers were kicked out of a course for the crime of keeping Jewish law:
Four members of an exclusive IDF cadets' course have been expelled from the course because they refused to be part of an audience where a group of women were singing. That the cadets were observing a principle of Jewish law and that the IDF has displayed understanding on the sensitivity of the subject in the past makes the incident all the more shocking, says Rabbi Haim Druckman, head of the Or Etzion Yeshiva and Director of the Bnei Akiva Yeshivot in Israel.Nobody should have to apologize for observing Jewish law. This is a disgraceful example of secular coercion. The IDF cannot expect God fearing people to serve in the army on the one hand and force them to break Jewish law on the other. The commander that demanded that the cadets hear a woman singing against their will should be disciplined.
“The whole thing is unbelievable, expelling top members of the course because they did not want to hear a woman singing,” says Rabbi Druckman. “The event in question was not a ceremony for Independence Day or Holocaust Day, where it could be argued that a musical component would be in place. The event was a discussion on the lessons learned from Operating Cast Lead (the 2008 IDF operation in Gaza). What place does singing – by a man or woman – have in such an event?”
The four cadets were members of a group of nine that left the event on Monday night when a group of female singers got up to sing. According to Jewish law, men are not supposed to be present at live singing performances by individual women, in order not to dwell on sexual thoughts. While not widely observed in the secular world or even among many modern Orthodox Jews, many yeshiva students and Orthodox Israelis observe this principle as part of their efforts to achieve a higher level of closeness with G-d and the Torah; the nine cadets that left the room are graduates of post-high school institutions of rabbinic Jewish study, and take issues of Jewish law very seriously.
When they left the room, the commander of their unit went out of the room as well and demanded that they return to the performance. The cadets said that they were acting out of religious principles and that the practice was common, but the commander refused to accept their arguments, and continued to demand that they return to the performance – and if they continued to refuse, he charged, they would be brought up on charges. Meanwhile, the performance ended, and the soldiers returned to their seats.
On Tuesday, the matter was discussed by top IDF commanders and members of the IDF Chief Rabbinate, and it was decided that the cadets would be given an opportunity to apologize for leaving the performance. Five of the cadets took the deal, but the other four refused, saying they had nothing to apologize for – and on Wednesday, they were booted out of the course. Two of the cadets are members of the Nachal Hareidi unit, and one is the son of a prominent hareidi religious rabbi.
Rabbi Druckman said that, Jewish law aside, the idea of throwing a soldier out of a course for refusing to listen to music was ridiculous. “There are no orders in the army to listen to music, what if the soldier doesn't like music? You can be a great commander without liking music.” He added that the unit commander who pursued the matter was “someone with a silly opinion. I would not rely on his judgment as a commander. They asked to be excused from the event and were refused. I am waiting for someone to explain to me what connection music has to Operation Cast Lead.”

To Mr. Nir Barkat
Much peace and God's blessing!
From my meetings with you concerning Jerusalem, I was very impressed with your seriousness and your sincere desire to devote yourself to guarding the unity of Jerusalem and its Jewish and Zionist identity.
May God help you succeed in this holy task by increasing its population, and guarding its Jewish and Zionist identity.
With the blessing of the Torah and the Land,
Chaim Druckman
Rabbi Druckman’s supporters have not responded to a single one of Rabbi Sherman’s charges in halachic language. They have thus added fuel to the fire of those who believe that the DL camp is incapable of dealing responsibly with sophisticated Torah thinking. Rabbi Sherman may or may not be right, but he raises important issues.This is line with what I wrote in my first post on the subject:
Any attempt to deal with this ruling in an emotional and non-Halachic manner is doomed to fail. Halachic issues are not solved by screams, petitions and mass gatherings. Those that think otherwise are fooling only themselves.Finally a well known rabbi from the National Religious camp has dealt with at least some of the issues halachically. In this week's issue of BeSheva
שניהם, בנפרד, גערו ברב דרוקמן שהבטיח לא לשנות באיוולת זו, ושניהם הורו שלא לערוך גיור מחודש ואפילו לא להחליף תעודות מחשש לחילול השם. כמובן שקבלתי בשמחה ואישרתי את כל גיורי הרב דרוקמן
Both of them [Rabbis Shapira zt"l and Eliyahu shli"ta] , in separate, castigated Rabbi Druckman who promised not to repeat this foolishness [of signing conversion certificates for conversions where he was not present] , and both of them instructed me not to perform a renewed conversion [i.e. the converts do not have to repeat the conversion ceremony] and even not to replace the certificates for the fear of desecrating God's holy name. As is understood I received [this instruction] happily and I certified all of Rabbi Druckman's conversions.
With regards to the conversions that were already performed - since in the end there were three rabbis that sat in judgment, the conversion is valid because the certificate as a document is not necessary according to Jewish law, and even if there is 'a forgery in it' this does not harm the conversion. As is understood that such a decision intrinsically implies that he who signed [Rabbi Druckman] this kind of 'forgery', and also Rabbi Avior that caused [Rabbi Druckman] to sign because of a certain interest, and is himself [Rabbi Avior] a signatory as well, there is nothing in all this to cast a personal blemish or illegitimacy to judge [on Rabbi Druckman or Rabbi Avior].
Among all of the voluminous material that exists in the file on the conduct of the Merkaz Shapira Conversion Court, and the conduct of the Court President Rabbi Druckman and his deputy Rabbi Y. Avior, I did not find any reaction, responsum or opinion by any expert rabbinic authority to the piercing halachic questions of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, former head of the Conversion Administration.
מה לעשות עם כל "מעשי בי"ד הידועים לי כ"זיוף", ואשר טרם נמסרו למתגיירים, האם לדרוש החלפתם בחתימת השמות הנכונים?
What should be done with the conversion certificates that I know are "forgeries", but have not been passed on to the converts, should I request that they be replaced with the signatures of the correct names?
מה לעשות עם כל "מעשי בי"ד הידועים לי כ"זיוף", ואשר כבר נמסרו למתגיירים. האם לדרוש החלפתם בחתימת השמות הנכונים? (היבט חמור של חילול ה'!)
What should be done with the conversion certificates that I know are "forgeries", and have already been passed on to the converts, should I request that they be replaced with the signatures of the correct names? (A serious aspect of the desecration of God's name)
מה לעשות בעוד 120-150 "מעשי בי"ד שאותו רב פלוני חתום עליהם במהלך מחצית השנה האחרונה? האם לברר נוכחותו עם המתגיירים במישרין או בעקיפין? חשוב לציין כי אותו רב פלוני מוכר בציבור, ומתגיירים יגלו בעתיד את ה"זיוף", וכדי בזיון וקצף!
What should I do with an additional 120-150 conversion certificates that Rabbi Ploni[Druckman] is signed on during the last half year? Should I clarify his presence with the converts directly or indirectly? It is important to note that Rabbi Ploni[Druckman] is well known, and the converts will reveal the "forgery" in the future, and this will cause much humiliation and wrath [RYR is citing Esther 1:18].
האם אותם פלוני ואלמוני, יכולים להמשיך ולשבת בדין גירות?
Can Ploni [Rabbi Druckman] and Almoni [Rabbi Avior] continue to sit in the conversion court?
ונפשי בשאלתי, למי עלי לדווח או להגיש תלונה אם בכלל?
And my soul in my question [RYR is citing Esther 7:3], who should I report to and issue a complaint if at all?
בכל החומר הרב שמצוי בתיק התנהלותו של בית הדין לגיור במרכז שפירא, והתנהלות אב בית הדין הרב דרוקמן וסגנו הרב י. אביאור, לא מצאתי כל תגובה, תשובה או חוו"ד של גורם רבני תורני בר סמכא, לשאלותיו ההלכתיות הנוקבות של הרב ישראל רוזן, ראש מנהל הגיור לשעבר.
Among all of the voluminous material that exists in the file on the conduct of the Merkaz Shapira Conversion Court, and the conduct of the Court President Rabbi Druckman and his deputy Rabbi Y. Avior, I did not find any reaction, responsum or opinion by any expert rabbinic authority to the piercing halachic questions of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, former head of the Conversion Administration.
With regards to the conversions that were already performed - since in the end there were three rabbis that sat in judgment, the conversion is valid because the certificate as a document is not necessary according to Jewish law, and even if there is 'a forgery in it' this does not harm the conversion. As is understood that such a decision intrinsically implies that he who signed [Rabbi Druckman] this kind of 'forgery', and also Rabbi Avior that caused [Rabbi Druckman] to sign because of a certain interest, and is himself [Rabbi Avior] a signatory as well, there is nothing in all this to cast a personal blemish or illegitimacy to judge [on Rabbi Druckman or Rabbi Avior].
After this "move" - I was calmed and did not investigate the subject further. From my perspective the affair was over.
That's just splendid. However, Rabbi Sherman and his court apparently feel otherwise, and they accuse Rabbi Druckman's court of not following these guidelines, i.e. of not making sure that the prospective converts are serious about keeping the mitzvot. Personally I would like to see evidence in order to judge the merits of these conflicting claims.
כל העקרונות שהזכרתי עד כה עומדים בבסיס המדיניות המנחה את בתי הדין לגיור של הרבנות הראשית, ובכללם בית דינו של הרב דרוקמן.
All of the principles that I have mentioned so far stand at the base of the policy that guides the conversion courts of the Chief Rabbinate, including the court of Rabbi Druckman.
Somehow I don't think that Rabbis Sherman, Izirer and Scheinfeld are going to "repent" so quickly. In any case I left the following comment on the internet addition of his article:
עוד חשבתי להוסיף דברים קשים על השערורייה שחוללו דיינים בבית הדין העליון, אבל נגמר המקום, ואולי טוב שכך, כי מי יודע, אולי בינתיים יחזרו בתשובה, ולא נצטרך לדבר עוד בזה.
I thought to add harsh words with regards to the scandal caused by the rabbinic judges of the Upper Court, however the space [allotted in the newspaper for his article] is [already] used up, and perhaps this is for the good, for who knows, perhaps they will repent in the meantime, and we will not need to speak more about this.
I am interested in hearing the rabbi's opinion with regards to the forging of rabbinic court protocols by Rabbis Druckman and Avior as was documented by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen and quoted in the ruling of Rabbi Sherman.
Dear Rabbi Yisrael Rosen.
Do you confirm what was said in your name in Rabbi Sherman's ruling concerning Rabbi Druckman and Rabbi Avior (concerning the forgeries)? If so - why did you take part in the rally in support of Rabbi Druckman? These are not vexing questions [i.e. in order to vex you] - I want to know since I learn in Rabbi Druckman's yeshiva, and it is important for me to clarify the subject from its source. Excuse [me], and thanks in advance.
The question is not clear to me.
I unqualifiedly support all of the conversions of The Conversion System, including those that were performed by the most lenient [rabbis] (and there are those that say that I am among them...).
The Conversion System is one of my life works, and ever since the ruling I walk bent over and am worried about what will be. Quite a few converts telephoned me in tears, and I had to use all of my power of persuasion in order to calm them.
I took part in the assembly of the Tzohar rabbis in order to express my support in all the conversions, including Rabbi Druckman's conversions, including the years 99-2005 that with regards to them the Great Rabbinic Court, as if it were possible, invalidated. At the end of the assembly they requested signatures - and I signed unqualifiedly.
In the [Hebrew] year of 5760, it seems to me, when I was the head of The Conversion Administration, it suddenly became clear that Rabbi Druckman occasionally signs rabbinic court rulings [i.e. conversion certificates] which he did not take part in. In the wording of the ruling it is said that the signatories confirm that the convert came before them, and that they checked him and found him suitable and he took upon himself [to fulfill] the commandments in front of them [i.e. in their presence] and the like - this wording is truly impossible for one that did not sit in judgment at all.
I did not know what to with myself because of the responsibility that was upon me, and what I must do halachically, publicly and ...legally.
I reported this to [then Ashkenazic Chief] Rabbi Lau , who was my supervisor, and at his suggestion, and perhaps it was my suggestion and with his agreement (I do not remember), I turned to [former Chief] Rabbis Shapira (of blessed memory) and Eliyahu (may he live a long life) to ask them what I should do, and similarly if I should inform these converts and give them a new rabbinic court ruling[i.e. a new conversion certificate signed by the rabbis that were really present]. In order to fulfill my administrative obligation (and perhaps [my] legal and ethical [one]), I put my questions and concerns in writing, in a letter to Rabbis Shapira and Eliyahu that was quoted in the present ruling. By the way, in my letter I accused Rabbi Avior of causing Rabbi Druckman to stumble in this [matter], and I explained the reason why he did this.
To the best of my memory both of them (in separate) called Rabbi Druckman and woke up his ear [i.e.discussed the matter with him] (I did not take part in the meetings. This is what I heard from their confidants) and he on his part promised that such events would not be repeated.
With regards to the conversions that were already performed - since in the end there were three rabbis that sat in judgment, the conversion is valid because the certificate as a document is not necessary according to Jewish law, and even if there is 'a forgery in it' this does not harm the conversion. As is understood that such a decision intrinsically implies that he who signed [Rabbi Druckman] this kind of 'forgery', and also Rabbi Avior that caused [Rabbi Druckman] to sign because of a certain interest, and is himself [Rabbi Avior] a signatory as well, there is nothing in all this to cast a personal blemish or illegitimacy to judge [on Rabbi Druckman or Rabbi Avior].
After this "move" - I was calmed and did not investigate the subject further. From my perspective the affair was over.
At the end of that year I finished my job. The file with the correspondence and its addendum remained in the offices of the rabbinic court management. Years later I heard that the file 'became thicker' with additional events that I have no knowledge of.
It is superfluous to mention, that I never raised a waggling of an argumentation that, as if it were possible, because of this deed Rabbi Druckman should be personally invalid to judge ( and perhaps to testify etc.) as the judges in the Great Rabbinic court impudently argue. It is superfluous to mention that I did not transfer anything to the media, and until I read Rabbi Sherman's ruling I did not at all know that this old material was included in it, and use was made of it that is totally out of proportion.
It is not clear to me what - and perhaps who - brought you to turn to me. In any case I saw fit to clarify [this matter] and you can make fair use of my words by distributing them, or bringing them to whoever thinks that perhaps I have a hand in this trespass.
And be a blessing,
Rabbi Yisrael Rosen
על כן כמה צר ומר פסק דינם של כמה דיינים שהעיזו פנים להטיל בו דופי ולפסול את הגיורים שגייר בלא לשמוע אפילו מה בפיו. חובת המחאה על ביזוי תלמיד חכם מוטלת על כולנו ולה אנו שותפים ב'מעט מן האור'.My translation:
ברכתנו שלוחה לרב דרוקמן שליט"א שימשיך ללכת על פי ה' ויוסף לקדש שם שמים ברבים ללא מורא וללא חת
Therefore how narrow and bitter is the ruling of a few rabbinic court judges that acted impudently to defame him and to invalidate the conversions that he performed without hearing what he had to say. The obligation to protest the degradation of a Torah scholar is incumbent upon us all and we at "Me'at Min HaOr" are partners to this [obligation].Let's take a look at this and see if this statement is "A Little Bit From the Light" or something else entirely.
Our blessing is sent to Rabbi Druckman (may he live a long life) that he will continue to go according to God and to fearlessly sanctify the name of Heaven in public.
"הרב אברהם שרמן שהיה אב בית הדין בדיון, פרסם אותו לפני כשלושה חודשים בכנס דיינים כללי והרצה עליו, והזכיר אותי ב"תוארי כבוד" רבים, תוך כדי אמירת גיבובי דברים. בעקבות ההרצאה הזאת טלפנו אלי דיינים כשהם מזועזעים מכך, שבלי לדבר איתי או לשמוע את הצד שלנו, הוא פרסם פסק דין כנגדי".Rabbi Druckman explains that before the ruling was made public Rabbi Sherman publicized it at a convention of rabbinic court judges. A week later they invited Rabbi Druckman to tell his side of the story. Rabbi Druckman told them that since they came to a decision without hearing him first, they invalidated themselves from adjudicating the matter. Rabbi Druckman notified Chief Rabbi Amar who instructed the court not to publicize the ruling. Two days later they publicized the ruling against the explicit instructions of Rabbi Amar who is the President of the Great Rabbinic Court.
"רק שבוע לאחר הכנס הם הזמינו אותי לשמוע את דברי, לאחר שכבר היה פסק דין! הגעתי לדיון ואמרתי להם שבכך שהם פרסמו את פסק הדין בלי לשמוע את הצד שלנו, הם פסלו את עצמם מלדון, ופניתי לרב עמאר, שהורה להם שלא לפרסם שום פסק דין אלא להעביר אליו את התיק".
"יומיים לאחר ההחלטה של הרב עמאר הם פרסמו את הפסק, כל מאן דהוא מבין שזה כתב פלסתר. אלו דיינים? אלו לא יכולים להיות דיינים! דיינים, שכביכול באצטלה של בית דין, כותבים פסק בלי לשמוע את הצד המדובר, איך אפשר לעשות דבר כזה?", אמר הרב דרוקמן
I believe that conversion must be done according Jewish Law of [in accord to the way it has been done for] many generations, for the purpose of guarding the unity of the nation.
Conversion has to be a factor in keeping the unity of the nation of Israel and not a factor [that causes] its fragmentation. I have no doubt that the problem of the non-Jewish immigrants that cane to the land [of Israel] in accordance with the Law of Return demands the attention of the halacha and the rabbinic court[s], however the problem must be solved in a manner that will not harm internal unity. It is forbidden for us to create different types of conversion that will give legitimacy to some and will harm others. The conversion must be "conversion for all", in a manner that will be acceptable to everyone. To our dismay this is not the situation today in the State of Israel, wherein there is a division [according] to different groups and sectors. It is possible to hope that conversion itself will become, with the passage time, a solution to this problem, however in any event I am of the opinion that without this kind of conversion, the motivation for immigrants to convert will not be created.

B"H Iyar 5768, 5.08
To Rabbi Yisrael much peace,
I read the ruling that Rabbi Sherman wrote concerning the conversions, and I saw the he relied a great deal on things that you wrote as the head of the Conversion Administration about Rabbi Druckman's forged rabbinical court protocols. It seems to me that in the entire ruling these are the most serious things that are said against Rabbi Druckman and Rabbi Avior.
If you in fact stand behind the things that you wrote why did you add your signature to the announcement protesting the insult to Rabbi Druckman, after all the Rabbinic Court that wrote the insulting things just quoted the words that you wrote?!
And in general, and in general, what is the truth in connection to the ousting of Rabbi Druckman under the pressure of the ultra-Orthodox, as has been publicized?
Answer:
A. With regards to the ruling of Rabbi Sherman:
1. The ruling contains three parts: Chapters 2-5 deal with the stringent conversion policy, including the ability to retroactively invalidate a conversion fairly easily if the convert say that she did not keep [the Mitzvot] so much. The ruling casts a doubt on myriads of conversions (and their offspring), but does not invalidate them in a sweeping manner (each case should be considered on its own).
2. In chapters 6-9 the "forgery affair" of Rabbis Druckman and Avior is described. Rabbi Avior was accustomed to have Rabbi Druckman sign rabbinical court protocols which he was not present at (because without his signature the conversion would not be approved, even though three rabbis were actually present). The wording "In a council of three we sat and came before us...and we checked...and accepted the commandments in front of us etc." is not true. Details further on. Rabbi Sherman tends to personally invalidate Rabbis Druckman and Avior, and as a result all of their conversions since the year '99.
3. The third part deals with the authority of the Great Rabbinic Court regarding the Conversion Courts.
4. I totally censure the first and last part of Rabbi Sherman's ruling, and I publicized a very sharp stance against it in "Shabbat BeShabbato" (Parshat Behar). I signed with both hands on the Tzohar Rabbi's Manifest concerning this, which is completely acceptable to me, including the unqualified recognition of the conversions of Rabbis Druckman - Avior.
5. With regards to 'my part'; When it became known to me (in the year 2000 my last year as the head of the Conversion Administration) the 'sign on blind' procedure I was obligated to act by virtue of my position. In coordination with Chief Rabbi Lau, who was my supervisor, I turned to Rabbis Shapira (of blessed memory) and Eliyahu (may he live a long life) and I spread my distress before them, orally and in writing, including questions if to replace the rabbinical court protocols, and if the conversions are invalid? Both of them castigated Rabbi Druckman who promised not to repeat this way [of signing rabbinical court protocols which he was not present at] . Neither of them instructed to invalidate the conversions or to replace the rabbinical court protocols. I accepted this and I kept quiet all these years and "I closed the file" in my mind.
6. Rabbi Sherman extracted the subject from the files of the Rabbinic Court Administration that administered the conversions after me. He discovered that Rabbi Druckman continued to sign in this way. In spite of this I cannot agree to the ruling that casts a personal flaw!
7. For the sake of Rabbi Druckman's honor I prefer not to relate to the subject publicly. I know that there are those that falsely suspect me of 'collaborating' with Rabbi Sherman. I prefer to be among those that do not answer.
B. With regards to the ousting of Rabbi Druckman as Head of the Conversion Alignment
1. The story of the 'ousting' of Rabbi Druckman on the background of Rabbi Sherman's ruling and 'the encroachment of the ultra-Orthodox' as is being hinted to by the media, is a clever spin. In my opinion the source is the rabbi's advisor, and in the end this will hurt the rabbi himself.
2. The Public Service Commisioner, Shmuel Hollander (national religious) is not working in the service of the ultra-Orthodox. He informed Rabbi Druckman (as well as his assistant, Rabbi Klein) two months ago (!) that he would not continue until the end of his term because of a serious comptroller report on his performance (and the performance of his assistant) in the Conversion Alignment. The central remark with regards to Rabbi Druckman is his great absence and lack of being present, in spite of having a full time position (including a car and a driver). Since the contract expires in 6.08 the reason given was age (75).
3. To the best of my knowledge, there is no 'letter of dismissal' because of the affair of Rabbi Sherman's ruling, and there is no connection between the termination of his work to the 'ultra-Orthodox' aspect. Rabbi Druckman (or his advisor) spoke to the media about a 'focused thwarting' and a 'shameful ousting' in connection to Sherman's ruling. And it is not so! In my opinion, such claims will lead only to embarrassing the rabbi due to the revelation of unpleasant facts.
Yisrael Rosen
And a comment to slanderers: On Yom Kippur eve (!) I sent a letter to Rabbi Druckman and in it I mentioned that I will in no way be a candidate to 'inherit him', and that my criticism was not meant to undermine him, God forbid. My life's work is Machon Tzomet, and in a full time position!
גניבת דעת של רשויות השלטון במדינה, שיש לה נפקות והשלכה על עניני סטטוס החל במרשם התושבים, וכן במתן זכיות ממוניות ואזרחות שהמדינה מזכה בעלי תעודות אלו, וכלה בקביעת מעמד אישי, ובזה יש אסור דאורייתא מטעם דינא דמלכותא דינא.
"Deceiving governmental authorities of the state (of Israel), and this has ramifications with regards to status starting with the population registry, and similarly in giving monetary and civil rights that the state awards the owners of these (conversion) certificates, and ending with the determination of personal status, and in this there is the Torah prohibition of "the law of the land is the law".
במקום שיש חילול ה' אין חולקים כבוד לרב